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	<title>Comments on: Our Freedom of Speech Paradox</title>
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	<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/</link>
	<description>Connecting the dots ...</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 05:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-219</guid>
		<description>Be careful of what you say you can go to jail for it.  Is what the SJPD and the Justice department have said.

Such as, &quot;Stick um Up&quot; to a bank teller.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be careful of what you say you can go to jail for it.  Is what the SJPD and the Justice department have said.</p>
<p>Such as, &#8220;Stick um Up&#8221; to a bank teller.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoli's Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoli's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-223</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Free Speech Costs $100&lt;/strong&gt;

A nurse in Athens, Georgia was pulled over on her way home by a local police officer, who disliked that her bumper sticker &quot;I&#039;m Tired Of All The BUSHIT.&quot;&#160; The officer considered&#160;it&#160; lewd, and gave her a $100 ticket for violating a state ...

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Free Speech Costs $100</strong></p>
<p>A nurse in Athens, Georgia was pulled over on her way home by a local police officer, who disliked that her bumper sticker &#8220;I&#8217;m Tired Of All The BUSHIT.&#8221;&nbsp; The officer considered&nbsp;it&nbsp; lewd, and gave her a $100 ticket for violating a state &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zoli's Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoli's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-222</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Anonymous Hate Commenter&lt;/strong&gt;

I’ve received a rather disturbing&#160;comment&#160; to a previous post of mine.&#160; It’s such a “marvelous masterpiece” that I decided to repost it in its full glory… be warned, the anonymous (!) commenter uses strong hate language.Re: Our...

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Anonymous Hate Commenter</strong></p>
<p>I’ve received a rather disturbing&nbsp;comment&nbsp; to a previous post of mine.&nbsp; It’s such a “marvelous masterpiece” that I decided to repost it in its full glory… be warned, the anonymous (!) commenter uses strong hate language.Re: Our&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-218</guid>
		<description>with reference to the prussian blue crap,

I am an extremely proud white (TRUE AMERICAN)man who happens to be quite educated and well off. My family were among the first from England to settle America. My country means everything to me, so forgive me for my rather strong opinion on this issue. i incidentaly happen to be a proud north-easterner. Listen up carefully all you scumtastic nazi-loving fascist hate-mongering &quot;rebels.&quot; We, and when i say we, i am referring to northerners, allowed you national traitors to fucking live after the great cival war. My great great grandfather personally cut down and sent to hell a veritable truckload of you bastards. Be grateful that you werent all rounded up and drowned in the damn ocean. Through years of struggle, war, and national conference we as American citizens have galvanized and made virtually permanent the values that regulate our society. Values like capitalism, christianity, freedome, liberty, and yes tolerance for our kind, many many of which dont happen to be white, Americans come in many races. Our national strength comes from our unity and adherance to our core values, not from the mindless divisive ignorance pawned off as pride by the likes of your kind. Damn, i kind of wish that a war would break out again, because it just might be time to purge all of you anti-american cockroaches out of our beautiful homeland. This is tha land of Washington, Lincoln, Luther King, Kennedy, and many more. This is not the land of Hitler, Mousillini, or any other sub-human force of medeocraty and national decline. I prey all your days come quickly so that my christian god will judge you good and proper

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>with reference to the prussian blue crap,</p>
<p>I am an extremely proud white (TRUE AMERICAN)man who happens to be quite educated and well off. My family were among the first from England to settle America. My country means everything to me, so forgive me for my rather strong opinion on this issue. i incidentaly happen to be a proud north-easterner. Listen up carefully all you scumtastic nazi-loving fascist hate-mongering &#8220;rebels.&#8221; We, and when i say we, i am referring to northerners, allowed you national traitors to fucking live after the great cival war. My great great grandfather personally cut down and sent to hell a veritable truckload of you bastards. Be grateful that you werent all rounded up and drowned in the damn ocean. Through years of struggle, war, and national conference we as American citizens have galvanized and made virtually permanent the values that regulate our society. Values like capitalism, christianity, freedome, liberty, and yes tolerance for our kind, many many of which dont happen to be white, Americans come in many races. Our national strength comes from our unity and adherance to our core values, not from the mindless divisive ignorance pawned off as pride by the likes of your kind. Damn, i kind of wish that a war would break out again, because it just might be time to purge all of you anti-american cockroaches out of our beautiful homeland. This is tha land of Washington, Lincoln, Luther King, Kennedy, and many more. This is not the land of Hitler, Mousillini, or any other sub-human force of medeocraty and national decline. I prey all your days come quickly so that my christian god will judge you good and proper</p>
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		<title>By: Zoli's Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoli's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-221</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Battle of the Bulge, Round 2.&lt;/strong&gt;

&#160;The first Battle of the&#160;Bulge &#160;was&#160; the last major German offensive on the Western Front during World War II, in December-January of 1944.&#160; It was also the largest land battle the United States Army has fought to date.&#160; T...

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Battle of the Bulge, Round 2.</strong></p>
<p>&nbsp;The first Battle of the&nbsp;Bulge &nbsp;was&nbsp; the last major German offensive on the Western Front during World War II, in December-January of 1944.&nbsp; It was also the largest land battle the United States Army has fought to date.&nbsp; T&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zoli's Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoli's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2006 02:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-220</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;More Than Disturbing&lt;/strong&gt;

The video below was not shot in some hidden terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, but in the state of Oklahoma, USA.&#160; All the weapons shown are available for purchase from the sponsoring vendor.

&#160;

Should the embedded video not work, here...

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>More Than Disturbing</strong></p>
<p>The video below was not shot in some hidden terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, but in the state of Oklahoma, USA.&nbsp; All the weapons shown are available for purchase from the sponsoring vendor.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Should the embedded video not work, here&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-217</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;That said, it was a speech, and should be dealt with accordingly: ignore the old fool, or challenge him at any public forum.  But nobody should go to prison for years for simply expressing their views, however stupid and insensitive they are.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

I think that there are two points here:  1.)  That freedom of speech always has limitations, and 2.)  The context within which David Irving gave his speech.

1.)  Your quote above refers to the fact that it was &#039;just a speech&#039;, (I guess this is along the lines that sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.)  Unfortunately a line has to be drawn.  A good example would be the furore over the Danish cartoons.  My view point, along with many others, is that for the cartoons, whilst crass to the extreme, it was right that freedom of speech allowed for them to be legally published in countries which could handle them without an extreme reaction.  On the other hand, the Muslims protesting in London saying that the cartoonists should have their throats cut etc. should be punished for such remarks (even if this is just a police caution.)

I don&#039;t think that this is a racist &#039;one rule for us, one rule for them&#039; approach.  It is just a case of drawing the line between the expression of offensive views and the incitement to violence where this incitement might be acted upon.  This &#039;line&#039; must be drawn in.....

2.)  Context.  David Irving had expressed his views previously in the UK and whilst most people would have found them objectionable, he wasn&#039;t charged with any offence.  Going to Austria less than 45 years after the atrocities of the concentration camps and giving a speech to a right wing rally is a different matter.  The &#039;context&#039; is that the Austrians have seen this kind of thing before, perhaps more close up than the rest of the world.  Hitler started by giving such Nazi speeches.  These views snowballed to the Nuremberg rallies (&quot;just a speech?&quot;) and eventually manifested themselves in the Halocaust itself.

Again, the context for Prussian Blue (and all the other &#039;White Power&#039; bands) is a bit different, but it still comes down to &#039;drawing a line&#039;.  Prussian Blue may be touring in the US, but the view from the authorities is probably that banning such poisonous speech would be overall be more damaging than any rascism it stirs up, because this would be limited in scale.  I guess Prussian Blue will not be touring in Austria any time soon however as the experience of the authorities there is that their society may NOT be able to resist the incitement to rascism quite so well.

By way of analogy, it&#039;s one thing to drop a match in a puddle but a different matter to put it in a powder keg.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;That said, it was a speech, and should be dealt with accordingly: ignore the old fool, or challenge him at any public forum.  But nobody should go to prison for years for simply expressing their views, however stupid and insensitive they are.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>I think that there are two points here:  1.)  That freedom of speech always has limitations, and 2.)  The context within which David Irving gave his speech.</p>
<p>1.)  Your quote above refers to the fact that it was &#8216;just a speech&#8217;, (I guess this is along the lines that sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.)  Unfortunately a line has to be drawn.  A good example would be the furore over the Danish cartoons.  My view point, along with many others, is that for the cartoons, whilst crass to the extreme, it was right that freedom of speech allowed for them to be legally published in countries which could handle them without an extreme reaction.  On the other hand, the Muslims protesting in London saying that the cartoonists should have their throats cut etc. should be punished for such remarks (even if this is just a police caution.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that this is a racist &#8216;one rule for us, one rule for them&#8217; approach.  It is just a case of drawing the line between the expression of offensive views and the incitement to violence where this incitement might be acted upon.  This &#8216;line&#8217; must be drawn in&#8230;..</p>
<p>2.)  Context.  David Irving had expressed his views previously in the UK and whilst most people would have found them objectionable, he wasn&#8217;t charged with any offence.  Going to Austria less than 45 years after the atrocities of the concentration camps and giving a speech to a right wing rally is a different matter.  The &#8216;context&#8217; is that the Austrians have seen this kind of thing before, perhaps more close up than the rest of the world.  Hitler started by giving such Nazi speeches.  These views snowballed to the Nuremberg rallies (&#8221;just a speech?&#8221;) and eventually manifested themselves in the Halocaust itself.</p>
<p>Again, the context for Prussian Blue (and all the other &#8216;White Power&#8217; bands) is a bit different, but it still comes down to &#8216;drawing a line&#8217;.  Prussian Blue may be touring in the US, but the view from the authorities is probably that banning such poisonous speech would be overall be more damaging than any rascism it stirs up, because this would be limited in scale.  I guess Prussian Blue will not be touring in Austria any time soon however as the experience of the authorities there is that their society may NOT be able to resist the incitement to rascism quite so well.</p>
<p>By way of analogy, it&#8217;s one thing to drop a match in a puddle but a different matter to put it in a powder keg.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-216</guid>
		<description>Duncan, pls. see my correction in the original post.  Thanks.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan, pls. see my correction in the original post.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-215</guid>
		<description>Duncan, I agree with you: &quot;commentary on a religion, they weren&#039;t illegal.&quot;  In fact that was my whole point, as well as  - I think - the point in the article I referred to:  there is room for subjective judgement in the area that&#039;s clearly legal,  and it&#039;s up to one&#039;s personal judgement.   Clearly, the caricatures are in this &quot;grey area&quot;.  I would not have published them, because I am sensitive to other people&#039;s feelings, religion ..etc.  But once they were out, they may have been poor judgement of the publisher, but no goverment could ban / stop them, since they had their right to Freedom of Speech.

The old fool denying the Holocaust: tasteless, a shame, considering the  millions who died, but it was just a stupid lecture,  my common sense would dictate it should not be a crime - yet it is per Austrian law.

I am all for Freedom of Speech, and am naive enough that most people are decent enough not to abuse it.   I would be happy to see some restriction though: I would draw a line at actively calllig for violent, criminal action - which is clearly what Prussian Blue does.  I would not lose any sleep over them being &quot;banned&quot;.

As for the VP shooting .. don&#039;t get me started... I have zero respect for people who take pleasure in shooting animals.. there you go, now I am angering all hunters out there:-)

Here&#039;s something especially for you:

http://www.current.tv/video/?id=1689949&amp;WT.mc_id=NewsletterSupernews



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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan, I agree with you: &#8220;commentary on a religion, they weren&#8217;t illegal.&#8221;  In fact that was my whole point, as well as  &#8211; I think &#8211; the point in the article I referred to:  there is room for subjective judgement in the area that&#8217;s clearly legal,  and it&#8217;s up to one&#8217;s personal judgement.   Clearly, the caricatures are in this &#8220;grey area&#8221;.  I would not have published them, because I am sensitive to other people&#8217;s feelings, religion ..etc.  But once they were out, they may have been poor judgement of the publisher, but no goverment could ban / stop them, since they had their right to Freedom of Speech.</p>
<p>The old fool denying the Holocaust: tasteless, a shame, considering the  millions who died, but it was just a stupid lecture,  my common sense would dictate it should not be a crime &#8211; yet it is per Austrian law.</p>
<p>I am all for Freedom of Speech, and am naive enough that most people are decent enough not to abuse it.   I would be happy to see some restriction though: I would draw a line at actively calllig for violent, criminal action &#8211; which is clearly what Prussian Blue does.  I would not lose any sleep over them being &#8220;banned&#8221;.</p>
<p>As for the VP shooting .. don&#8217;t get me started&#8230; I have zero respect for people who take pleasure in shooting animals.. there you go, now I am angering all hunters out there:-)</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s something especially for you:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.current.tv/video/?id=1689949&#038;WT.mc_id=NewsletterSupernews" rel="nofollow">http://www.current.tv/video/?id=1689949&#038;WT.mc_id=NewsletterSupernews</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zoliblog.com/2006/02/21/our-freedom-of-speech-paradox/#comment-214</guid>
		<description>Zoli

I know where you are coming from, but the updated comment worries me, because responsible freedom of speech is subjective. Sure, we shouldn&#039;t allow people to promote criminality and what not but the Mohammed cartoons were commentary on a religion, they weren&#039;t illegal.

&quot;self-control, common wisdom, decency, respect for others&quot; are all subjective as well. We&#039;re not big on guns for example in Australia and the promotion of guns etc.. would be considered deeply offensive here, and yet in the states the VP shots people...again, subjective notions.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zoli</p>
<p>I know where you are coming from, but the updated comment worries me, because responsible freedom of speech is subjective. Sure, we shouldn&#8217;t allow people to promote criminality and what not but the Mohammed cartoons were commentary on a religion, they weren&#8217;t illegal.</p>
<p>&#8220;self-control, common wisdom, decency, respect for others&#8221; are all subjective as well. We&#8217;re not big on guns for example in Australia and the promotion of guns etc.. would be considered deeply offensive here, and yet in the states the VP shots people&#8230;again, subjective notions.</p>
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